It's very difficult to ignore the 800-lb. gorilla in your living room, especially if you put it there yourself. So I'm venturing, very gently, into those rough waters I entered a post ago with asking why not come home now, from Iraq. Most especially to Cyndylou, who took alot of intelligent time and trouble to explain her point (Cyndy are you reading this? Someone tell Cyndy to drop over here, I want her to see this, it's important, her words are important).
In these pages I express my views, I never expect full or even partial agreement on anything. If so many of the people I care for and respect in this place are in favor of continued fighting, it propels me to think and re-think, to gather facts and stats, to educate myself more fully about the subject I'm addressing. This one's war. It's not worth losing friends over. Note 8/8/07: A very dear friend pointed out the incredible faux pas I made here. Indeed, war does cause people to lose alot more than friends.
Cyndy, I would never say something for "sound bite" effect, as you intimate. I truly meant what I expressed, just as I know you did. Though I'm not sure who you thought I was, you now feel I'm not that person. I assure you, the same person I was yesterday is tapping this out now.
For me, when something like this happens, it's time to examine my views and be sure, very sure of them as it seems to raise many hackles, and though I welcome differening expressions and views I definitely have a high distaste for the separation of people based solely on their political or ethical points of view. I don't want you to state your peace then turn away. You have something I can learn from, ALL OF YOU, as I learn from everyone who does me the honor of gracing these pages with their comments.
Give me more facts. Give me something more than "we have to finish what they started". To me, from where I see it this war doesn't have a direction or goal, a purpose, a long-view, nothing. So I ask that you help me understand why wemust stay in Iraq. Then I'll drop it.
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10 comments:
I did not realize you responded to my post, for some reason I did not get an alert on yours. I'm going to choose to not respond to your comment back to my question, and respond to this post. More specifically to a question you asked. You have asked why we must stay in Iraq? Let's put aside the opinions of we should not have gone over to begin with, we're there now. One reason, I can think of off the top of my head -- to prevent a civil war.
I still agree with you Cathy. I think we need to get out of there. We've been there long enough. We have the resources to end this war and yet it drags and drags, killing more of our troops each day. We all know that there were no weapons of mass destruction over there. That was our "reason" for being there at first...supposedly. It's just dragging....turning into another Vietnam. People say we have to finish what we started. Ok...we've been there longer than we were involved in WWII. That was a HUGE war...and we were able to end that one. We could end this if we wanted to. For some reason, the big guys in charge don't want it to end. Not just yet. People I've talked to say it's all about money. Oil and money. Pretty high price to pay for oil.
Just like the big guys in charge don't want our borders more closely guarded. We could stop the influx of illegal immigrants if we really wanted. But, we don't. Somebody wants them here. Some I've talked to think it's because of the influx of drugs. Somebody in charge is making money somehow...so it continues.
Do you agree with my views? If not, why?
Pam
Cathy 2 Pam:Thank you for this, I wasn't aware that drugs were involved too, amongst everything else. This is a learning experience for me, I've not studied war since the 60s when we marched on DC and had sit-ins for peace. "LBJ, how many kids did u kill today?" Make love not war. War is not healthy for children and other living things. Maybe I'm just looking at this as the hell Viet Nam was and I don't want to see a repeat. I lost too many friends, and the ones who came back really didn't. Your words make sense, thanks. If this subject were a bit more palatable, I'd hope more people would express their views as clearly as you have, and as Cyndylou has. I just want to understand what appears to have no reason, you and everyone who responds will help me do that. xoxo
Whether we like it or not we are not really fighting the Iraqis now, we are fighting Iranian, Pakistani Muslims and Libyian insurgents. The brave Iraqi's turned out en masse to vote' democratically for a democratic government. I was so very proud of them that day. We encouraged them to look towards democracy and we must not back down now because the going is getting tougher. The Iraqi's themselves are still taking massive body hits to their population in the cities by the car bombs etc. But you don't see those decent citizens up in arms wanting us all out. They need us there for protection. Their new government is struggling against the many religious zealots from different countries who fire up their followers on rhetoric from the Koran. Democracy, in any country now living free of communism etc has always been a hard won goal and a long journey. Lets still stand beside the decent Iraqis who want the same as you or I. A democratic way of life and freedom of choice to bring their families up in peace with a decent quality of life. Allowing Iran and Libya to steal their way into Iraq and seize what they covet is wrong. Just as it was wrong of the Chinese to overwhelm Tibet...but that's another long story.....
Jeanie
Cathy 2 Jeanie: Thank you, and wasn't it heartbreaking to watch those peaceful, most spiritual Buddhist monks be torn out of their hilltop temples? Though the Chinese have since released Tibet they sure incurred alot of bad karma I'd say.
Cathy,
We got involved with Iraq in 2003 for the wrong reasons, but we got involved. Pulling out now will leave a vacuum that is likely to be filled by the bad guys, leading to major instability in a region that supplies everybody's oil. Yep, let's face it: It's all about blinking oil. Nobody gives a hoot about the Iraqis, Iranians or Saudis.
Pull out now: you'll have a civil war, that could spread region wide. It is a choice of two evils.
However, I appreciate your sentiments in putting across your sincerely held views on this matter, and suggest we agree to disagree.
Cathy 2 pharmolo: Indeed Guido, I didn't want to believe this is all happening because of petro-dollars yet it would seem to be so. Thank you for stating your views, every bit helps me to see this more clearly, and honestly.
So going back to the gorilla, I've woken up in the morning after a night in the pub to find some strange things in my living room. So far I've managed to give wildlife a wide birth.
http://journals.aol.co.uk/acoward15/andy-the-bastard
Cathy:
I love your approach to this matter. There aren't many people who can invite a discussion and listen to a different opinion. I want an exchange. I don't want to be called stupid or ignored. Like you said, we can all learn.
I want out of Iraq now. But I agree with the person who talked about the instability of the region. We walked into a country and took out a bad guy. We didn't think this through though. Did we have the right to do it? I'm not sure about that. Did we do it because of a connection with Al Qaeda? No. We were lied to about that. All intelligent reports made public at this time confirmed that. Did they WMD's? Haven't found them yet, and I honestly believe we were lied to about that as well. When we took out Hussain, we took out the government and the army. We left a country without leadership, and thousands of individuals without a way to support their families. We created an insurrection. Any terrorists in that area now came in response to our taking over Iraq. The way I see it is even if we were wrong to go in there, if we pull out now, we'll leave behind the seeds for another humanitarian crisis.
Jude
http://journals.aol.com/jmorancoyle/MyWay
Dear Cathy, sorry that I can't help you understand why we must stay in Iraq. I agree with you and share your question. So if anyone provides you with an answer that you think has merit, please notify me.--Sheria
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